Copa del Rey 2011/12

[Calleti]

Weil jegliche Kritik von Calderon lächerlich ist, und du als Gegenstück Laporta angeführt hast.

Das hab ich niemals behauptet und entspricht auch nicht der wahrheit.

Lächerlich ist einzig und allein das revo von "kritik aus den eigenen reihen" spricht, und als einzige quelle dazu calderon nennt. Ob calderon's aussage jetzt richtig oder falsch (oder lächerlich ) ist, hab ich nicht bewertet, sie kommt aber u.U. aus einem bestimmten motiv heraus und eben nicht "aus den eigenen reihen".

[revo]

Das hab ich niemals behauptet und entspricht auch nicht der wahrheit.

Lächerlich ist einzig und allein das revo von "kritik aus den eigenen reihen" spricht, und als einzige quelle dazu calderon nennt. Ob calderon's aussage jetzt richtig oder falsch (oder lächerlich ) ist, hab ich nicht bewertet, sie kommt aber u.U. aus einem bestimmten motiv heraus und eben nicht "aus den eigenen reihen".

Ein Verein wie Real Madrid hat eine eigene Geschichte und verkörpert mehr als nur einen Fußballverein, sondern auch anderes. Aus dem gleichen Grund fliegt dem portugiesischen Trainer andauernd Kritik an den Kopf obwohl er dabei ist die Liga deutlich zu gewinnen.

[Jorly]

Weil ich grad drüber gestoßen bin, ziemlich guter Artikel von Sid über die Stadion-/Termindiskussion inkl. der Inkompetenz des Verbands:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/sid_lowe/02/15/copa.del.rey.final/index.html

[*Mani*]

Das Finale findet am Freitag, den 25. Mai statt.

Schauplatz ist nun doch Madrid, aber das Atlético-Stadion Estadio Vicente Calderón.

[Jordi]

Aguirre (president Madrid region): "Whistles during Spanish hymn planned? If it happens, the cup final should be suspended." [onda cero]

Klaro, und wenn die dann nicht in Ruhe heimgehen wollen fangts einfach zu schießen an.

[MILANISTA]

Klaro, und wenn die dann nicht in Ruhe heimgehen wollen fangts einfach zu schießen an.

Klassischer Vernunftsmensch.

[Tom.]

[Jordi]

Mah, will haben

[Jordi]

http://blogs.elpais.com/trans-iberian/2012/05/copa-del-rey-final-turned-into-political-football.html

Copa del Rey final turned into political football

Por: Dermot Corrigan | 24 de mayo de 2012

Once Barcelona coach Josep Guardiola announced he was retiring, the season ending Copa del Rey final was set up as a fitting send-off for the most successful trainer in the club’s history. That the game was against an Athletic Bilbao side overseen by his friend and mentor Marcelo Bielsa seemed just right. All seemed set for a memorable shared football occasion between two of La Liga's most storied clubs.

Then news started circulating that Athletic and Barcelona fans groups (i.e. Basques and Catalans) were planning to whistle the Spanish national anthem before the game. This was not a huge shock, as you can’t follow Spanish football for long without learning that clubs work as containers of and symbols for local culture and pride. Foreign football writers soon learn to be careful about respecting different points of view - using ‘La Liga' club not ‘Spanish' club for example. Match reports and previews generally steer clear of political points, with the different rivalries just bringing some nice extra colour for readers. So a few whistles were to be expected.

The first hint that the Copa final might be more politicised than normal was Real Madrid declining to offer their Estadio Santiago Bernabéu as a neutral venue. There was also the Elephantgate scandal which looks to have ruled the King out of the game through injury, but the real feeling that something really different was brewing came on May 10th, when an outraged group of ultra right-wing organisations received permission from the Tribunal Superior de Justicia de Madrid (TSJM) to march “for Spanish unity” on the day of the final. The groups (which included La Falange, el Nudo Patriota Español, el Movimiento Católico Español, la Asociación Vieja Escuela Madrid and others) were claiming they needed to respond to “Basque and Catalan separatist provocation” and an intention to “insult all of Spain and all Spanish people”. ‘One flag against separatism' was to be their rallying call.

Such talk of provocation and insults moved things beyond the usual squabbles between competing supporters and club delegates. The last I’d heard of La Falange was when reading about the Spanish Civil War, and the references were generally not positive. I’d assumed the group had faded away in recent decades with democracy replacing fascism and all, but a quick google search brought up a website which had nothing about football or sport, but featured an article entitled ‘Democracy, the loincloth of tyranny’.

Permitting these guys to march seemed like a strange idea. Cristina Cifuentes, head of the central (PP) government's delegation in Madrid, justified the decision by invoking free speech, saying you can’t ban a march just because you don’t agree with the marchers’ views. This had me for a while, until I remembered that in three and a half years living in Spain I’d seen that not everyone gets to protest exactly when and where they want. It just two weeks since there were indignados forcibly removed from Sol.

Surely the authorities could let the right-wingers march, but maybe not when lots of football fans were also in town. It is not that unusual for there to be some trouble around big games. The last few months have seen Madrid police charging young Atlético supporterscelebrating their Europa League success in the city centre, and, more seriously, a 28-year-old Athletic fan Iñigo Cabacas dying after being hit by a rubber bullet fired by Ertzaintza (Basque police) members reportedly trying to break up a disturbance after a game.

It was clearly time for some senior political figure to weigh in with a considered and balanced statement to satisfy all sides and take some of the heat out of the situation. On Tuesday Comunidad de Madrid president Esperanza Aguirre (also PP) decided to get involved. This was promising as she'd been keen to be associated with successful Real Madrid and Atlético Madrid teams in recent weeks, but her contribution was not as I’d expected.

“Insulting the flag or the anthem are crimes under the Penal Code,” said Aguirre. “We must not stand for this, and my opinion is the Copa final should be abandoned if there are whistles during the anthem, and played behind closed doors. This trophy was awarded by the President of the Republic when there was a republic, Franco when Franco was here and now by his majesty the King. This is a Spanish competition. If there are teams that do not want to play in a Spanish tournament, then don't play. But what cannot be the case is that it is converted into an act of hostile protest against Spain and Spaniards.”

Unsurprisingly, bringing Franco into the debate did not calm things down. Barcelona football club president Sandro Rosell and defender Gerard Piqué responded by saying supporters should be free to express their own personal views. Others in Catalonia showed impressive memories. Ex-Barcelona president and current vice-president of the RFEF (Spanish football association) told Onda Cero Catalunya radio that he recalled a final between Barca and Espanyol (in 1957) when there were protests against the then head of state: “If in those times the game was not abandoned by a dictator, I don’t believe that after so many years of freedom and democracy you can gag people attending a game of football.” The president of Cataluña Acción, Santiago Espot, went even further back (to 1925): "Aguirre is talking about doing the same as Primo de Rivera, when he closed Les Corts for whistles during the Royal March".

Then, as chance had it, on Wednesday I was speaking with football author Jimmy Burns who is currently in Spain promoting his new book 'La Roja, a journey through Spanish football'. As someone closely plugged into Spanish culture and society (his grandfather was doctor and writer Gregorio Marañon and his father worked in the British embassy during WWII), Burns brings his own personal perspective to the development of the game in Spain.

The book is filled with knowledgeable interviews and choice anecdotes and shows how in Spain football and politics have been entwined almost from the first kick-off. Barcelona president Josep Sunyol was shot by nationalist forces during the Civil War. Athletic’s Estadio San Mames was the safest place for expressing Basque identity during the Franco years.

You should always however be careful to avoid any simplistic or mythologised readings of the game's past, Burns told Trans-Iberian, and unfortunately the opposite had happened this week:

“I know Esperanza Aguirre quite well, and she is a very dynamic, charismatic and generally intelligent politician,” he said. “I think on this particular issue what she said was unfortunate. She made a political calculation and said something which clearly appeals to a certain section on the right wing of her party. In Catalonia and the Basque country it has gone down like a ton of bricks. Ironically, her justification for doing this was that football was becoming too politicised. But clearly she herself has politicised the final in a way it probably would not have if she had kept her mouth shut.”

Burns was not wrong. Basque politicians understandably felt they had to reply to Aguirre. Socialist ‘lehendakari’ Patxi López asked her to take back such “unfortunate comments”. PNV leader in Bilbao Andoni Ortuzar suggested that instead of whistling during the Spanish anthem, fans could sing songs in Basque or Catalan.

Politicians in Madrid were also called in. The minister of the interior Jorge Fernández Díaz stopped short of actually criticising his party colleague, but said the authorities would be better transmitting “serenity, calm and tranquility” and added that he “completely disagreed” with the TSJM ’s authorisation of the right-wing extremists’ march. PSOE leader Alfredo Pérez Rubalcaba took the opportunity to say that clubs should contribute to the policing costs for such high-risk matches.

From a sportswriter's perspective it looks like the whole controversy has less to do with historical rivalries than with current issues facing Spain. Politicians have plenty of more important problems to be talking about and working on, and football has been deliberately dragged in to get people talking about something other than austerity, bank bail-outs, unemployment etc etc. That is what politicians do I guess, but heating up an already volatile situation is neither big nor clever. Some right-wing politicians in particular appear to be taking advantage of the situation to promote a particular conservative agenda. Guardiola's last game has already been overshadowed. And now it’s difficult to know what to expect from the day of the final.

About 60,000 Basque and Catalan fans are expected in Madrid, including 10,000 travelling without tickets for the game. Both clubs have been given designated ‘fans zones’ - La Casa del Athletic (or Athletic Hiria) is by the Puente del Rey on Madrid Río. Barcelona fans are asked to gather in the Parque Matadero. These are both sensibly close to the Estadio Vicente Calderón venue, and well away from the Falange-lead march, which begins at 6PM and goes between Plaza de Alonso Martínez and Plaza de Chamberí (a map is here). 2,300 police will be around to control the situation, including mounted officers, canine units and helicopters.

All this made me almost forget about the actual game, which kicks off at 10PM Friday and is previewed here. The previously all-conquering Barcelona side will want to send their coach off with a smile, while Bielsa’s exciting young Athletic team are well capable of springing a surprise. The hope is that everyone afterwards is just talking about the football.

bearbeitet 24. Mai 2012 von Jordi

[Jordi]

Pep Guardiola comes full circle for a reunion with Marcelo Bielsa

The Barcelona manager's final game will be against the man to whom went for advice upon first considering a career as a coach in 2006

Pep Guardiola's final game as Barcelona manager will be the final of the Copa del Rey against Athletic Bilbao on Friday. Photograph: Gustau Nacarino/Reuters

Marcelo Bielsa was there at the start and he will be there at the end. Back in October 2006, before Pep Guardiola took his first steps as a coach, one of the men from whom he asked advice was Bielsa. Should he really become a football manager and, if so, how? Together with his friend the film director David Trueba, Guardiola went to Argentina on what turned into a kind of pilgrimage, travelling 11 hours to seek the wisdom of the man they call El Loco. Late into the night they spoke. Guardiola and Bielsa connected.

Legend has it that Bielsa asked Guardiola: "Do you really like blood that much?" Guardiola presumably decided that he did, just not that much. He became a coach and the most successful coach in Barcelona's history. He has won 13 titles, including three successive leagues, two European Cups and two World Club Cups. But four years later, he bows out, exhausted. The football has taken its toll and so has everything else: the relentless demands, the public profile, the battles. The blood.

This has been a difficult season. It has also been Barcelona's least successful under their manager. They have won only the Spanish Super Cup, European Super Cup and World Club Cup. On Friday, in Guardiola's last game as coach, they could also win the Copa del Rey. The man against him – Marcelo Bielsa, is in his first season at Athletic Bilbao.

Johan Cruyff, Guardiola's greatest mentor, describes this as the end of an era. As farewells go, it is pretty well perfect. Two of the three clubs that have spent their entire history in the first division, the two with the most Copa successes in their history – 25 for Barcelona, 23 for Athletic. Two clubs with a special identity; Catalans and Basques facing each other in Madrid. Guardiola once admitted that he would love to coach Athletic one day; when Barcelona looked to replace him, Bielsa was one of the names on everyone's lips.

On Wednesday, Barcelona's sporting director Andoni Zubizarreta, a former Athletic Bilbao goalkeeper, noted: "Bielsa would adapt well to our club." Javier Mascherano and Alexis Sánchez have played under him at international level.

If there is currently a certain mutual admiration between the clubs, between the coaches it is even greater. When Guardiola announced his departure Bielsa described it as "a huge loss for football." Guardiola described Bielsa's arrival in Spain in similarly glowing terms. La Liga had become richer for El Loco's presence. "I would have liked to have played under him: he is different to everyone else," Guardiola said of Bielsa. "Under him, Barcelona are an innovative artistic expression that's generated a culture – a counterculture," says Bielsa of Guardiola.

In the aftermath of Barcelona reaching the Copa del Rey final, Guardiola became most alive when he was asked about the opponents that awaited. "You can see Bielsa's hand at Athletic," he said. "This will be a fascinating final." He was almost open-mouthed as he talked about them and the astonishing intensity, the purity of their performance. There is no speculation and no gamesmanship, just a relentlessness to their pursuit of the opposition's goal, a generosity of spirit that the Barcelona coach admires. There was a kind of wonder about Guardiola and the fact that he was speaking in English gave it even greater charm: "They run up, they run down, they run up, they run down, they run up, they run down …"

When the two teams met at San Mamés earlier this season, it finished 2-2. Guardiola called it a canto al fútbol,an ode to football, a love song to the game. At the end, the two men embraced. "Your players are beasts," said Guardiola. "So are yours," replied Bielsa. It was moments like these which made the blood worthwhile. When the final whistle goes on Pep Guardiola's final game as Barcelona coach, they will embrace again. He has come full circle.

Freu mich schon unheimlich auf die Partie heute Abend. Endlich mal wieder ein wichtiges Spiel wo Respekt und nur sportliche Rivalität im Vordergrund stehen.

Nicht das dass immer so gewesen wäre

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW6ZhHIGMbg

Auch wenns mir für die Basken doch leid tun würde, aber dieser letzte Pokal gehört dem Mister.

bearbeitet 25. Mai 2012 von Jordi

[Jordi]

Und eines geht noch (den ganzen Vorbericht gibts hier: http://www.barcelonafootballblog.com/14490/beginning-barcelona-athletic-bilbao/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+BarcelonaFootballBlog+%28Barcelona+Football+Blog%29&utm_content=Google+Reader)

Enjoy this last one with Guardiola. He’s the man. El Puto Jefe wherever he decides to sit down and make his presence felt. He’s an articulate, interesting, erudite fellow and he’s also boss at this here game of football. The team will no doubt play their collective heart out in order to get him his final piece of hardware before it’s Tito’s turn to make a little history. Go into this one not with aggression, but with joy and determination. Not with warrior-mode on, but with conviction that style is sometimes greater than substance, but both can be had at once. It is one of the defining lessons of the Guardiola era: hold your head high when you do things to the best of your ability, with all your heart, and with every bit of energy you have. Win or lose, this should be a festival.

It is not an ending, really. It is not a wake. It is the beginning of the Tito era, with all the nervousness and hope that such things bring. Yes, Guardiola will not be standing on the touchline any more, but like Cruyff before him, he will forever be in there.

In the end, it’s all about Pep. So let’s this, one last time:

[Jorly]

Und ich bin grad heut auf einer 40er-Feier.

GsD überträgts ATV2, muss ich dann wohl aufnehmen.

[H.B.K]

Letztes Jahr war Real Cupsieger und Barca Meister.

Dieses Jahr wirds vermutlich genau umgekehrt sein, ich kann mir nicht vorstellen,

dass Pep sich den letztmöglichen Titel mit seinem Barcelona noch nehmen lässt.

Supercup nächste Saison dann wieder El Classico.

[Toniotic]

Jara Kurtl als Experte. Yay!

[Schind]

Jara Kurtl als Experte. Yay!

der spielt und wohnt ewig in Spanien und kann keinen Namen richtig aussprechen